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  • Apr. 1st, 2008 at 9:59 AM
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Feel like reading some sweeping generalisations and blatant self-contradiction? Check out Jonah Goldberg in the LA Times.

Wow. Considering the date, I'd like to have thought this was a joke article. The guy's so off base I don't know were to begin.

First off, if you want to talk about "smugness", let's look at the contention that anyone who displays a "Darwin fish" exhibits moral cowardice. I'm hearing this a lot from certain Christian quarters these days, pissing and moaning about how "the media wouldn't dare" portray Jews or Muslims in the same way it does Christians. The general public don't greet criticism or plain mockery of Christianity in the same way they do the other big two because they know that a) the church's founder espoused non-violent, even meek acceptance of such treatment; b) that there's no active paramilitary Christian group currently engaged in campaigns of murder or intimidation (although if you work in the field of human fertility, your perspective might be different); and c) no nation in living memory made an industry of shovelled Christians into ovens. In time, we will blithely make films, books and cartoons that treat all three with the same amount of respect and contempt. In the past, Christians were executed on a mass scale, and later committed atrocities when given the upper hand. Those days are gone. That's cause for celebration, not disingenuous claims that the church is some kind of underdog, tired of being kicked around by all these secular superpowers. Right now, there's a good few raw Islamic and Judaic wounds and we're not quite ready to talk as freely and openly about those two as we do about the good old, established church that arguably hasn't given us any major grief since the Inquisition.

His comparison between the use of the fish symbol and the Star of David is utterly pathetic. Even those who don't fully understand the origins of the fish symbol know it's not THE emblem of Christian faith. The use of The Cross in a likewise manner would be offensive, and if it were happening Goldberg would be right to decry it. However his carping about the "cancer" at the heart of Islam- including, in his view, censorship and lack of freedom- does not sit well in the same article with the contention that those who make a joke about creationism are committing a hate crime. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the teaching of evolutionary theory in American schools still a very active debate? Aren't those who display this symbol adding their voice, in satirical mode, to that debate? If Christians have a problem with the Darwin fish, my advice remains the same as it ever was; instead of getting all idignant, make with some jokes, make them more often, louder and, above all, better than the non-believer. In that manner you'll retain the moral high ground so precious to you and you might just win the long lost middle ground too.

Comments

[info]mcgazz wrote:
Apr. 1st, 2008 10:25 am (UTC)
A quick google suggests Goldberg is a neo-con. He's pro-Iraq war, attacks paleocons and liberals, has written for neo-con bible The Weekly Standard, and has published a book with a stupid inflammatory title, "Liberal Fascism" (he gets extra neocon bonus points for referring to something other than fascism as "fascism"). Once you know that, his contradictory position makes sense. Neocons don't tend to be religious themselves but, for political reasons, have to trot out anti-Islamic boilerplate while bigging up Christianity to placate their theocon allies in the GOP.

As for Christianity not causing trouble: I'm far more scared of US Christian fundies than Middle Eastern Islamic ones.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5646.htm
(Anonymous) wrote:
Apr. 1st, 2008 10:51 am (UTC)
Hey, I'm an equal opportunities Darwinist - if someone brings out a pro-evolution symbol that mocks other faiths' creation dogma, I'll stick that on my car bumper too. It'll look great with my Flying Spaghetti Monster (which technically mocks everyone).

I find regular fish symbols on a car to be a reasonable indication that the driver will cut in front of me laying on the horn and flipping me the bird. It's a bit like crap drivers having to put a white flag with a red cross on their cars during even-numbered years.

In the US, people who find the Darwin fish offensive have been known to go round and chip off the feet. In return, it is possible to get hold of kits to add feet to Jesus fish. Both of these are vandalism or criminal damage, and far more serious than the presence of one or other symbol.

I find Goldberg's assertion that a Darwin fish is cowardly amusing to say the least, given that the Jesus fish was used because early Christians were too scared to admit openly that they were Christian.
[info]mcgazz wrote:
Apr. 3rd, 2008 06:24 pm (UTC)
The whole Flying Spaghetti Monster "meme" was one of the things that really turned me off hardline athiesm. I'm all for secularism, but does it have to be accompanied by shite, sub-Pratchett smuggery?
[info]schism_schasm wrote:
Apr. 4th, 2008 10:02 am (UTC)
I'm not familiar with it myself.

Have I finally seen you pay a back-handed compliment to T.Pratchett? ;-)
[info]mcgazz wrote:
Apr. 4th, 2008 10:41 am (UTC)
Blimey, I think you have. I'm sure TP could have come up with a better 'fake God for the purpose of argument' than the FSM. Probably some kind of tortoise called something like The Mighty Splendidian Of Wankh.
[info]schism_schasm wrote:
Apr. 4th, 2008 10:54 am (UTC)
You're closer to the mark than you realise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_Gods_%28novel%29

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